Republic by Charles Sheehan-Miles

Why Wave? Why not just post here?

I'll give the book a go... I don't have a lot of time but I'm a pretty fast reader.

Michelle

Michelle asks, "Why Wave? Why not just post here?"

Posting here is fine and I encourage that but posting has a different function than Waving.

Wave is something new that won't replace a bulletin board post because it's not public. It also requires a gmail account to get signed up and has some other quirks, but along with the quirks, are some payoffs in the form of instant communication and a different level of on-line collaboration made possible.

My daughter and I used Wave for proof-reading some of her College papers for this last semester and currently another of my friends (and possibly a third may be joining) are using Wave for some on-line bible study. These communications are sort of like the PM feature except that we make comments within the PM and there is no 'send' button because it's already sent with each key stroke! Wave is just a form of communication like email... maybe email on steroids? It has certain drawbacks in its current pre-bata release, but I think it is something that more and more people may find useful for specific applications.

The big advantage that I envision will be for group collaboration and review of written documents. In the end, the document will need a place to be published, but I think there is potential for great improvement in what is published. I also feel much less concern about copy right violations in a wave because it is a private not public communication, so if I feel like posting a page or two of material - without the authors permission & without legal citations - to share in a pertinent discussion of the material, I would.

Wave isn't for everyone and all that can be done in Wave can also be carried out just fine without it using email, PM's, and Chat applets.

It's actually a great book Jim, you would probably really enjoy it.

So has anyone else started the book yet?

I began listening to the book (Republic) and have listened to the first three chapters but I wanted to really give this book my best open minded review by at least following along some with actually reading it, so tonight I downloaded Mobipockets to my Blackberry, the accompanying Mobipocket software to my computer and then downloaded the Mobipocket/Amazon Kindle version of Republic. After a bit, I got the book from my computer to my cell phone so now I can read it on the go... and also in the dark! My cell phone is back lit.

I came across a review of the book with some lengthy comments on the Daily Kos (2007), some people may be interested in comparing there thoughts with some of these comments as they read especially if you've already finished reading the book.

Also, consider starting to write your own personal review of Republic. I think that might be a final goal when we finish. In addition to the content of the book itself, is the way that the author has published this book and made it freely available, I think that is interesting and something that other aspiring writers might want to take note of. I've read some comments that express the judgment of some that the book is sometimes awkwardly worded, contains misspelling, and that the plot is just implausible at times. I'm wondering if this is true, is it because the usual editing and review process has been bypassed by the author through the self-publishing method he has chosen? Is self-publishing a good or bad thing when it comes to literary excellence?

I just finished reading chapter 9 (maybe 1/4 way through the book). I can't believe I've had my Blackberry for nearly a year and am just now discovering what a great little e-reader it is using Mobipocket software! Also, I'm really thinking about how great it is that anybody can publish a book or short story and put it out on the Internet for practically nothing... and have national or global distribution! Wow!!! What a world we live in!

I'm getting over the miss-spelling and goofy sentences that Sheehan-Miles sometimes uses in the book. He writes about how I do! Ha! Ha!

I find the story interesting, but I'm not being really drawn into it for a couple of reasons.

I'm skeptical. It's almost too much, too unbelievable, that Murphy, the main Character, gets his leg blown off in Iraq, has his wife murdered by a drug crazed teenager, has a son with some kind of incurable disease, put his other kid through Harvard while he and his wife bought and paid for a $400,000 store! He looses his job but sends out 100 job applications and does 50 cold calls in two weeks.... thats 10 working days do the math, plus all the other stuff he's supposedly doing, watching a sick six-year-old, testifying in Washington, and now leading the town's revolt against DHS... the guy's a real superman!

The second thing is the Department of Homeland Security gone Wild and where that is going to lead....? I'm not there yet, but I'm guessing where this is going. I've seen enough of rogue law enforcement to know it happens such as at Waco, Ruby Ridge, and Lodi back in the 80's with the execution of a guy by a whacked-out-cop for marijuana. There's also the guy out in Richland county and the big assault the local police did on him a year or two back. I don't know? I'll see where Sheehan-miles goes with it.

And that's the neat thing about book discussions. We each see the book in different ways and we are able to share with one-another how we've received the book. There is no right or wrong way on that.

Over-all, I'm really enjoying getting into reading this book and I think it'll present some great opportunities to share what we think as the book progresses.

I've taken another look at the questions the author presents and he's asking things like projecting what we think would be the opinion of the founding fathers. I'm not sure we can know that (though I'm sure we could argue endlessly over it) or that that is the real important issue. My mind is going in a slightly different direction especially with the passage of the 'Patriot' act and Homeland Security. Russ Feingold had some courage when he voted, No, on at least some of that, but many 'party loyalist' thought anything given to Bush in the name 'patriotism' was great. I think they forgot that after Bush would come Obama and many more yet unknown rulers. Was it really smart to start incarcerating without trial and laying aside constitutional guarantees in the name of potentially politically motivated safety from terrorist? Those are some of the questions that I think are important.

Guys,

I had written to the author to let him know we are discussing his book, and he has offered to come answer any questions we have when we are done with the book.

I'm interested to know if the book was intended as a political cometary or just fiction he decided to write.

I spent another hour at the Y yesterday and got to the end of part 4 of the audio book. Still very gritty and depressing. It's interesting but definitely not something I'd normally read. It's a struggle sometimes to keep myself from crying and looking silly at the Y.

I'm not sure what more to say. I was never good at book reports as a kid and I'm afraid I haven't gotten any better as an adult.

Will keep listening...

Michelle

Thank you to those who cared enough to suggest a thoughtful book.

Like the time I started watching THE WIRE. The benefit of doing a Marathon is I now have REPUBLIC on my hard drive. What I posted yesterday must have not made it for some reason - oh well.

I finished REPUBLIC. I now am listening to the book again.

I wonder if there are times in human events that occur where people who are otherwise common travelers on earth are jolted in some way? Human history from ancient man records times both dismal and exceptional, mostly the former.

Do events converge allowing precious few among us the courage to rise to these times? Do we look back to our own President Lincoln who was willing to ask IF Government of the people would survive?

I am wondering about myself when reading REPUBLIC. The events compare to things my community and world RIGHT NOW. The question I have as I begin to re-read is this: If I were being observed - would I be helping survival or exploiting it? WHEW!

MELVIN SMITH - God Bless you my brother for suggesting I read REPUBLIC. I need to read REPUBLIC again and learn from you all out there. Lead on Coulee Region Online Brethren - Lead on.

Broadband Randy

There is no clear villain other than events. This book is a case of everyone doing what they think is best and it coming to a head. There is a point where the testimony to congress and the boys illness play a major part in shaping decisions (Don't want to say too much due to people in various parts of the book)

I'm not as critical about character development because I don't think they are the major point the author wanted to make. Yes it would be nice to have a little more depth to the characters but the events are the real story and the characters are just the method for telling the story in my opinion.

I've just finished Chapter 15, page 157 of 388 in the pdf version - I only refer to the pdf file when I want to search a word, it's really handy to be able to do that. The Town hall meetings takes place in Chapter 6 & 8 I think, around pages 60's and the 90's.

We are 1/3 of the way through January and those that are participating should be far enough into it, so that some discussion can begin. If some are not, maybe they can post to say, "I'm not that far along yet, but I'll give it a go when I get there!"

So you have my vote to carry on Cybercowboy.

So what does everyone think, would the DHS over step their bounds like illustrated in the book and photograph citizens or round up people just because of their demographics? I'd like to think some individual would have enough integrity to say NO and stop the orders, but I also look at the Nazi party and once an institution starts to get rolling it builds an awful lot of momentum very quickly.

There are some very interesting things toward the end of the book that I'm also looking forward to discussing after everyone is finished, and I want to bring the author in for some questions since he's already agreed to it.

Hey, here's another demonstration of what DHS is capable of, Mikey the dangerous eight-year-old. Here's his Facebook page.

I have no special insight. I along with many others do however. It takes listening and understanding - and courage to listen. The legislative folks that represent me do not have policy ears when I call them. The interest is only money, so votes can be won and manipulated.

Why I appreciate the book is I see similar situations here in the near municipalities where I live. I see police being able to be summarily ordered into peoples homes with no warrants on the administrative orders of a nobody (who may be well connected politically) and police who even a few years ago would never have behaved the way they do today. No one I see is acting like anything is wrong. The police (local, state, national,) are currently acting (in my opinion) in a manner that will lead them to take up arms similar to the book's description. Yet no one is able to criticise because those who control policies enjoy immunities and they are in the control of political power.

Just as in the book, manufacturing facilities obtain funds to "re-tool" where folks are proud of their ability to hold off unions. They have declared bankruptcy and been freed of large municipal debts that others will pay through taxes, and all the time everyone is just happy to save a few jobs. EEEEEEERRRRRRRRIIIIIEEEEEEEE............. (They order uniformed police to do ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!)

The book shows me a situation that can happen here and now. That is what troubles me. My question is this: who was the actor I represent or what was the turning point where a different outcome may have been realized?

One factor may be the elimination of immunities for the legal class. Accomplishing that may be a near impossible task. It could be the only thing left to "uncouple" the spokes of power presently being used to crush common Americans.

Broadband

CyberCowboy - your question of would HLS order troops is a good one? Our own civil war is instructive and the Holocaust is too. The REPUBLIC author illustrates in Chapter 24 (episode 15) where Capt Mike Morris gets the news that he is going to be the scape goat for the White House on what was a mission that he himself did not want to do. A mission where the U.S. Army was used to assist the local police.

In the book, the folks in Virginia were about to take an independence vote - but the White House was on the "caper". The controlling class is immune. Perhaps the immunities need to be undone as fast as possible - does anyone have the courage to ask Congress to tackle that? Yea - good luck on it.

I am trying to figure out how to say it. In my community the ruling class would order homeland security to eliminate the public for the benefit of business interests and do it for Jesus! The other half of the Holocaust victims were common Germans who saw it coming and either left Germany or were burned up with the Jews.

The police search where they have no warrant and do what they are ordered to do when no one has done anything wrong - summarily in my community now today. The difference between today and only a few years ago - is homeland security. Police would ask self and say no before. Now, they do thinking it is OK.

The ruling class has a mission to provide business funds they feel. That mission now is so righteous, even the two political parties are simply both each other on steroids. No balance. So, can we avoid a Germany, or a civil war? Wow, that is a powerful point.

I am listening to the way the public reacts to media, in these tapes and thinking, where am I in this story. The people in Virginia are doing good in my opinion, I wonder if I would be so faithful?
Broadband.

The sick child was to show the harshness of the Fiscal Responsibility Act I believe... Remember this book was written a few years ago long before the Obama Care was in the works.

I am anxious for people to finish this book, I have a lot of discussion topics but don't want to give any spoilers or pre-dispose people to my way of thinking.... we're getting there I have 3 episodes left myself.

I'm done, just waiting for others to finish so I don't give them spoilers....

Does anyone know, does Jim Brasher have the book read? He seems like the type who would be a great addition to a discussion. Also, would Michele have any interest in commenting. I notice she is gracious to offer a "go ahead", but I am curious about her point of view.

Also, I want to agree with Mel Smith - THANK YOU to CyberCowboy for a book that I will not be able to stop thinking about, not because of its quality, but because of its grip.

(Please forgive me for using a scripture verse to illustrate my point, I am not a basher.)

It reminds me of a Bible verse: In II Corinthians Chapter 10 Paul said: "I do not wish to terrify you .....they say His letters are strongly worded but his personal self is unimpressive and his speech is contemptible." (vs. 9 &10, 11)

I can identify with Paul, and as much as I keep trying to be polite, well spoken, kind, and all the good things I somehow I wind up being the thing I hate: vs. 10 above.

However, Paul wrote 26 books of the New Testament. Not bad for being so unimpressive and hateful. The point is, he tried his best not to be.

Maybe the book, being rather unimpressively written is just what we need. REPUBLIC has caused me to re-think my reaction to some things. I need to have the help of people out there understanding what the right position on our future is. We are going to need each other as we go forward - thinking people that is. No matter what our individual backgrounds and distinctions are.

Reactions? -

I add my voice with Mel, Thanks again CyberCowboy.

Those are some interesting observations from both Randy and CyberCowboy about the books perceived lack of polish. It seems there is general agreement here and in other reviews about that aspect of the novel.

In the report I'm writing, I'm pondering the question of the author's purpose in telling this story. The example of the Marriage late in the book is an extension of that question. Why? I don't quite know how I want to express the thought, but it's like some stories are tales of make-believe, fiction, just for the sake of telling a story, but I think the point of this story, combined with the author's own discussion questions about it, points to a different purpose. It's a commentary attempting to weave today's questions and headlines into a novel. It's not so much about the characters of the story but the events, is what I'm thinking.

Because the Novel attempts to make a political commentary on our times, as CyberCowboy speculated earlier in this thread, I think we need to hold it to a different standard of believability and rationality than say Stephen King's, "The Langoliers" or "The Dark Towers" with the insane train.

Because of that, I have some issues with the novels premise that a State Governor would try to go to war with the U.S. military (and that both sides would muster troops to fight a traditional military battle! Why not gorilla tactics that actually work?). I believe the battles between Federal authority and States rights are being waged today and they are actually being won in the courts on many fronts. California's marijuana and Florida's fight over the right to spend stimulus money how it deems appropriate regardless of what the federal government thinks are two examples and for those that know history, this debate has been ongoing since our nation was formed. Yes, it led to one civil war and may someday lead to another... if the Langoliers don't get us first!

I think the novel is a great place to start discussing some of these issues but I believe Sheehan-Miles 'possible' future for America is as absurd as about half the countries reaction since Obama was elected.

The facts are that we have an election process that works, a government that works, and a history of political debate and dissension that works and a constitution that works; but in the last few years, the crazy train has been running out of control! And it's not the government. The government will work just fine as we the people participate in making it work. The real crazy train is filled with those that are "They are confusing tyranny with losing!" as Jon Stewart has so comically stated.

My advice to anyone is to relax. There truly is nothing new under the sun, it's all been done before. Nations and political parties rise and fall. Some people are greedy, others giving. Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose. "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times… "

Our time in America today really is not so bad at all and not nearly as bad as some try to make it.

Side note, I just let the author know that we have now finished reading this and that he was welcome to come participate in our discussion. He said earlier this month he would be happy to come answer questions for us, so what would you ask him?

The idea of a Constitutional Convention did not occur to me. It's a scary thought at the current time because I don't believe the current generation is wise enough to conduct such a thing - in light of some current political expressions! Can you imagine what the result would be if the 'Teabaggers', 'Limbaughs', or 'Palins' headed up such a task?

On the other hand, I do not believe that the founding fathers of our nation were endowed with such uncommon wisdom that they hit upon the perfect government for mankind for all time and for all generations. There are other government arrangements in other nations that more or less work as well. Also, our nation and the world has changed and will continue to change, not everything that made good sense in the mid-eighteenth century is still as sensible today.

Issues of state's rights are one of those issues that have evolved. As an example, I drove truck back when each state was issuing 'authority' for trucking companies to conduct interstate commerce. It was a network of permits, fees, ol'-boys-clubs, and 50 different ideas about everything. I'm sure it still is to some degree, as you would know more than I Randy, but somewhere back in the 80's we moved from the interstate rules that made sense in the days of horse and buggy to something more fit for the way goods are transported today.

The founding fathers did a good job in 1776 but is it really good for today as the country (and the Senate rules) have evolved? One Vote for 18 million U.S. Citizens in California and one vote for a quarter million U.S. Citizens in Wyoming! One vote from Nebraska to cut a deal forever for less than 2 million U.S. Citizens! Yes, I know why it was done in 1776... will we still be doing it that way and will it still make sense 10,000 years from now? I doubt it.

Yes, someday we will have to get back to a constitutional convention, but I hope we can leave it for another generation to arrives with a few more scholars and leaders, and a few less... I don't know how to describe what I'm thinking of... without offending.

I agree with you about the need for people with common sense, I disagree with you that folks in the 'tea party' have it but people with an education do not.